The *official* DooM³ system requirements/question(s) thread

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Spineless-mush
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Post by Spineless-mush » Sun Oct 17, 2004 00:29

Some one who loves 3D FPS wrote:
Spineless-mush wrote:One day we'll have quantum computers and there'll be no need for videocards because everything will be able to be rendered via the CPU and threads like this will be obsolete.

Yay!
On a serious note, in reality you'd be surprised: Video cards are advancing much faster and much greater than CPUs are.
Surprised how?

All I know is that all this stuff you people are getting emotional over now will be obsolete in a decade or two when we'll be playing Doom 3 with the high-poly models originally created by id with (whatever next-gen thing that hasn't been invented)-mapping and real time soft shadows...
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Post by Wester547 » Sun Oct 17, 2004 02:18

Spineless-mush wrote: Surprised how?

All I know is that all this stuff you people are getting emotional over now will be obsolete in a decade or two when we'll be playing Doom 3 with the high-poly models originally created by id with (whatever next-gen thing that hasn't been invented)-mapping and real time soft shadows...
In a decade or two we'd be more realistically playing games with one billion character models the quality of the Star Wars Episode II Yoda Model or the Lord of the Rings Gollumn model.....locked solid @ 60fps in real time.....with something beyond "real-time soft shadows", more like realistically softly diffused and post-processed ray-tracing dedicated and radiosity based area shadowing with raytracing and shadow volume casting dedicated graphics hardware.....at the very least, I expect stuff like that in a world as large as life itself within the next five years. ;)

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Post by Spineless-mush » Sun Oct 17, 2004 19:16

Then again, who said player models in the future are going to use polygons?

We went from sprites to polygon models. Who knows what's next (actual rounded surfaces rendered in real time?)...
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Post by Wester547 » Sun Oct 17, 2004 19:38

Spineless-mush wrote:Then again, who said player models in the future are going to use polygons?

We went from sprites to polygon models. Who knows what's next (actual rounded surfaces rendered in real time?)...
That would be curved tesselated surfaces in real-time....it was a concept used in Quake III Arena but was indeed over-exagerrated and was plunged with terrible issues. Ray-tracing would be the solution to properly form vertices in curved surfaces, and we don't have ray-tracing dedicated graphics hardware now do we.

I guess the next step would be to calculate player, or characters all in the surface normals instead of relying on limited and very CPU intensive (as well as vertex shader intensive, although CPU would have to deal with anisotropically lit vertex skinning) displacement mapping. First was texture mapping, then bump mapping (emboss in 1, 2, or 3 passes, EMBM).....then normal mapping (DOT 3 rendering).....and further more diffuse and specular components (to set the colour and level of shine of a surface), then a parrallax map (to calculate the offset and heightmap of a surface in order to achieve true irregularities on surfaces). This seems like the next step:

http://www.paralelo.com.br/arquivos/ReliefMapping.pdf

Now it seems with that rendering method all the geometry storing displacement mapping data can be stored in a single relief map by combining both a depth map and fragment offsets in a single texture while getting self-shadowing generation (automatic) for free. In about a year or so I see 3D real-time games or apps using that technique. At the cost of ~600 pixel shader instructions (~200 for surface fragment generation, ~400 for self-shadowing generation). That means you'll need an R420 or NV40 kiddies to run this kind of effect. PS/VS 2.a, 2.b or 3.0.

Or we could burden the pixel shader with a volumetric procedural texture map that not only takes up huge chunks of texture memory but seriously destroys your frame-rate at the cost of real 3D textures. However it is cool as you can generate this kind of texture dynamically in a shader program instead of painstakingly hand-painting it in photoshop or whatever. All without having to alter the verticies of an object. :smile:

Here's a nice example of procedural texture mapping:

Image

Looks nice, doesn't it? ;)
Last edited by Wester547 on Wed Jul 19, 2006 09:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Paul » Sun Oct 17, 2004 19:43

Well we're still stuck in things made out of fundamentally 2D objects ie a polygon.

I see things moving to voxels or something similiar.

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Post by Wester547 » Sun Oct 17, 2004 20:12

Yeah, or we could use volumetric pixels instead of volumetric textures as I was talking about before, as voxels contain data of the position and depth about of object using 3D pixels instead of polygons. Infact there are games that already use this technique like Commanche, Delta Force and Outcast for an example.

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Post by Paul » Sun Oct 17, 2004 21:19

I think it's the way to go, although to do it effectively you need some massive memory.

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Post by Wester547 » Sun Oct 17, 2004 22:01

Paul wrote:I think it's the way to go, although to do it effectively you need some massive memory.
Yeah exactly, it takes up way too much VRAM so not for a few years or so would that be a sufficient technique.

I'd stick with things like high polygon counts and normal mapping for now.

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Post by Spineless-mush » Mon Oct 18, 2004 23:11

Wow, I read Wester's long post, and this time it was actually pretty interesting ;) Nice discussion.

How come I've never heard of voxels before? Are they just theoritical for now because processing them would require too much power or have they actually been done?

Because as Paul said, flat polygons have no future.
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Post by Wester547 » Tue Oct 19, 2004 01:19

You've probably never heard of Voxels before cause it's one of those deep in computer graphics mathematical professional terms. ;)

And yes, Voxels theoritatcally require a mass amount of VRAM, a huge chunk automatically due to the point of storing X, Y and Z axis positional 3D data all in pixels instead of vertices, true 3D building blocks of an object instead of pathetic "polygons". Sorry, but you don't use "polygons" anymore to make something look better or even decent. :D
Last edited by Wester547 on Mon Feb 21, 2005 21:17, edited 4 times in total.

Shiju

Post by Shiju » Thu Oct 28, 2004 16:00

1024 X 768
Abit A17 Motherboard
Intel P4 Processor 2.4
Dual Channel 512 mb PC 3200 Corsair XMS TwinX Plat Memory
80gb Barracuda 7200.7 SATA Hard Drive
ATI 256 mb Radeon 9800 XT
Housed in a Aspire X-Infinity Case

Running on High accross the board, looks and runs great.

Little "sticky" at times but was cleard up by freeing up memory using black viper's XP services guide ( http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm ). I believe with another dual channel 512 stick the game would run flawless.

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Post by Paul » Thu Oct 28, 2004 17:33

Shiju wrote:black viper's XP services guide ( http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm ).
You do not want to be running Windows XP with all that disabled, you'll have more problems then you can imagine. There's a reason they're on by default.

Wolfman83

Post by Wolfman83 » Sun Nov 07, 2004 18:22

Well I bought an alienware laptop off of my friend for $1200 its the 16.1 screen, has 1GB of ram, SB 5.1 dolby digital sound card, 9600 mobility radeon, 3.2 P4 CPU, and runnign Win XP Pro. Curious if I should go with an nvidea GoFX5700 graphics card, 9700 Radeon mobility, or will the 9600 Mobility Radeon suffice until 9800 is available on alienwares? How is this going to be playing Doom3? I know if I really wanted a power house I'd build my desktop up but I needed a laptop right now for portability. Whats your verdict?

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Post by Wester547 » Sun Nov 07, 2004 19:24

Wolfman83 wrote:Well I bought an alienware laptop off of my friend for $1200 its the 16.1 screen, has 1GB of ram, SB 5.1 dolby digital sound card, 9600 mobility radeon, 3.2 P4 CPU, and runnign Win XP Pro. Curious if I should go with an nvidea GoFX5700 graphics card, 9700 Radeon mobility, or will the 9600 Mobility Radeon suffice until 9800 is available on alienwares? How is this going to be playing Doom3? I know if I really wanted a power house I'd build my desktop up but I needed a laptop right now for portability. Whats your verdict?
For DOOM 3 GeForce FX 5700 Go mobility on a labtop should suit you the best with the proper driver support. The rest of the labtop system specs looks fine, your labtop should run DOOM 3 fine.

Wolfman83

Post by Wolfman83 » Sun Nov 07, 2004 22:51

Some one who loves 3D FPS wrote:
Wolfman83 wrote:Well I bought an alienware laptop off of my friend for $1200 its the 16.1 screen, has 1GB of ram, SB 5.1 dolby digital sound card, 9600 mobility radeon, 3.2 P4 CPU, and runnign Win XP Pro. Curious if I should go with an nvidea GoFX5700 graphics card, 9700 Radeon mobility, or will the 9600 Mobility Radeon suffice until 9800 is available on alienwares? How is this going to be playing Doom3? I know if I really wanted a power house I'd build my desktop up but I needed a laptop right now for portability. Whats your verdict?
For DOOM 3 GeForce FX 5700 Go mobility on a labtop should suit you the best with the proper driver support. The rest of the labtop system specs looks fine, your labtop should run DOOM 3 fine.
thanks I will look into getting the nvidea card and then play it.

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