Dark Souls 3

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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Saladin » Thu May 05, 2016 16:15

Been going pure magic on my end, no weapons allowed. It's been a tradition of mine since DS1. It's a bit ridiculous because you run out of FP before the boss but it's usually ok since they usually unlock a shortcut right before one.

Magic is definitely nerfed in this game but it's still highly effective. You die a hell of a lot less when you're not putting yourself in harm's way to get hits in. It's like a vacation compared to my first play through.

I'm enjoying the little stuff more on this run, like how they brought back that DS1 vista feeling where you realize that basically anything you see is where you're eventually going to *go*. You can even see the Boreal Valley from Vordt's vantage point. Kinda neat.

Overall though, while my feelings have gotten more positive as the salt has faded, I still basically the same about the game's place in the series. Better than 2, but still not great.

I agree about the dancer completely too. Other than the grab, it's a great fight. Very memorable.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by kob » Thu May 05, 2016 19:22

yeah I've heard that about magic. seems like you need to get pretty far into the game before you can start solely using magic? how far have you made it? I'm thinking about a magic build on my 3rd run

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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Saladin » Thu May 05, 2016 19:39

I've done magic/pyro only right from the beginning. Although I do occasionally whack people with my staff, torch, or fire hand or throw firebombs.

It's viable right from the beginning but you need to go back to the bonfire with more frequency than you do with normal builds.

I find *only* magic to be somewhat difficult. Some enemies are resistant to it so an alternative is helpful occasionally. So I use pyromancy sometimes too. But most enemies drop like a rock if they don't have a shield. It can even cause pretty gnarly hit stun.

The only boss thus far that's truly been a pain in the ass was the stupid ass tree because you can't lock onto his actual vulnerable parts.

Right now, I'm fighting the Deacons, who I think are probably the best mob based boss the game has ever implemented. Running out of FP is actually a bigger concern in fights like that than dying is.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by kob » Sat May 07, 2016 03:01

champion gundyr is cancer.

that is all.

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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Gordon Frohman » Sat May 07, 2016 17:11

Somewhat unrelated but I just read the lore behind Artorias and Sif and now I'm sad. I choked up quite a bit reading it.

How do I fight these feels brahs, I don't like it.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Saladin » Mon May 09, 2016 20:04

Yeah, one of the things the series has kinda dropped that I really miss is the notion that your character is not supreme badass superhero dude, but is more like a confused, desperate murderer struggling to survive in a world he doesn't belong in, destroying beautiful things along the way.

Just rebeat the game as my magic character, totally agree kob, Gundyr is duuuummmmbbb. He was significantly easier though when I didn't have to be close to him to do damage.

Magic is nerfed in this game, but it sort of doesn't matter because what it's good at, allowing you to fight from a safe distance, is fucking broken since most of the "challenge" in DS3's harder bits is dealing with retarded movesets (Gundyr, etc.). So not having to hug their ass to do damage is such a freaking relief that the fights go much smoother.

The exceptions were primarily that dumbass tree, because you can't lock onto his vulnerable parts, and Prince Lothric, who not only can you not hit with magic except in the extremely narrow window when his brother is down, but he also *resists* it. That fight was more horseshit than anything on my first run, it's nearly a hard counter to magic builds.

Just as a contrast, I beat nameless king on my first freaking try as this build. That's how powerful not having to approach is in this game. Standing back and peppering him with weak spells is stronger than any physical build possibly could be. Same goes with the Dancer and a number of other difficult bosses.

Oceiros was a bit of a pain, as was Gundyr and anyone else with attacks that are too fast to deal with and who move around too damn much. But the game went decently smoothly, if a bit dull at times due to how boring they've made magic by nerfing it so hard.

My overall feelings have actually gotten a bit more negative. DS3 really does pale in comparison to Bloodborne or earlier Souls games. It's got some good moments I like a lot, but a whole lot more that are severely aggravating.

I think I'll go back and play Demon's and Dark again too to see how they hold up.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Gordon Frohman » Mon May 09, 2016 20:43

I'm currently replaying BB and I'm kind of agreeing with you, Sally.

As good as I thought DaS3 was, BB was better and it would be the perfect Souls game were it not for a few factors. Little factors, but enough to keep it below DaS1 for me, which is still the king. I still need to beat DeS goddamnit. Need to buy a PS3.

#DeS+DaSRemastered2016
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Saladin » Mon May 09, 2016 21:08

I think DS3 has bosses and enemies that basically *are* bloodborne enemies, which is *so* dumb when you don't have side step, rally, viscerals, etc.

It was very foolish to try and incorporate those kinds of elements just to try and make DS3 emulate BB's success. They don't fit with this series.

DeS had not aged well last I played it. It's really easy to overlook all of the excellent visual and core gameplay improvements that have been made to the series since DS2.

That being said, yeah, the other games actually have a soul to them, and are compelling in a way that DS2/3 (and even parts of 1) are incapable of being.

And it's because being "hard" is not what makes these games *good*. It's massively frustrating that half the fanbase is too stupid to understand this. There's been hard games for freaking decades and no one cares about them just because they're hard.

Enough ranting though. Unfortunately, there likely can't be a DeS remaster due to the circumstances under which it was made (PS3 exclusive when From was broke and obscure). And I doubt there's any interest left in trying to fix up the pile of junk that was the PC port of DS.

It's really difficult to support old games, especially old console games. People have no idea. Emulators are like modern miracles. The amount of finicking it takes to make any of that shit work is amazing.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by kob » Mon May 09, 2016 21:09

yeah Gundyr is just fucking stupid. by far the worst boss in the entire series. the charge he does in enrage mode literally has 360 degree tracking. not even exaggerating. he will spin in place any fucking direction and hit you. what the fuck? i don't even know how you're supposed to avoid it because it does multiple damage instances, meaning if you even remotely mistime the dodge you'll probably get hit when you stand back up. and if you do time it properly there's a good chance you're going to get hit with the 180 spin arcing attack he does right after. and of course you can't fucking block it unless you have a high stability shield (or so i'd imagine - my Grass Crest Shield couldn't stop it). so 9 times outta 10 you take free damage and the other 1 time is just complete luck. and then there's all his stupid fucking endless combos that are purposely delayed, virtually nonexistent cooldown and the punish attacks. good god i hate the punish attacks. oh yeah and because Dark Souls still has input delay and action queueing you'll take free damage just because of the controls.

ugh man he's just stupid. i'm still salty about that motherfucker. not even the hardest boss in the series. just cheap and dumb.

i beat Nameless King on my first try the 2nd time around. rapier makes it so much easier to deal with him and honestly once you know what he does he's really not that bad (unlike Gundyr). the only thing that's tricky about him is those consecutive delayed thrust attacks, but they're infrequent and only a problem if you have a slow weapon like i did on my first run.

i'm actually considering going back through Bloodborne here pretty soon. i haven't played it since it came out. probably get the DLC as well when i do.

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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Saladin » Mon May 09, 2016 21:43

Yeah, you pretty much can't avoid those attacks. They're designed to be basically unlockable and nearly impossible to avoid. This is why the series is dead to me, it's gone full Ninja Gaiden with fake ass difficulty. You're supposed to take damage in this fight, playing perfectly is nearly impossible without a ton of memorization.

Gundyr is one of those transplanted Bloodborne bosses. In Bloodborne, a boss like that is designed to keep you on the offensive, gaining health back with rally and getting quick hits in between side steps. And, of course, the fact that he can be parried would fit in perfectly with visceral high-risk, high-reward strategies.

But in Dark Souls, you don't have any of that! So it's strictly a fight where you memorize every single move perfectly, execute your plan extremely well, and pray you can do enough damage before you run out of estus.

Terrible fight. Reminded me a lot of Fume Knight or Alonne. Except he's much faster than both of them.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by kob » Mon May 09, 2016 22:54

yeah he makes Fume Knight and Alonne look like chumps. neither of them have anywhere near the kind of delay and punish attacks Gundyr has. they're predictable in knowing when they go on cooldown if memory serves me right. but Gundyr you can almost never tell if he's going to spin kick you the second you swing or if he's gonna follow up that attack or not. that fight is so wildly different depending on the RNG you get.

he's 100% a Bloodborne boss. and in that game he's probably a decent fight sans the charge attack. i don't know what the fuck they were thinking giving that move that kind of tracking. the counter to an attack like that is to get out of the way. i should be able to dodge out of the way of it and have him go right past me. but you can't because he can turn at any angle from any direction and either hit you or guard break you (which leads to getting hit after because he always follows it up with that spin attack).

the emphasis on perfectly timed rolls rather than tactics is endlessly frustrating for a game like this. and i can't even say that perfectly timing your rolls works for that attack. i genuinely have no idea how you deal with it so if you guys know i'm all ears.

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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Gordon Frohman » Tue May 10, 2016 00:33

I had more trouble with Fume and Alonne than Champion G.

Took me around ~5 tries. The "trick" to Gundyr is hugging around him all the time so when he whiffs he's open. I beat him using the ice rapier you get from the Outrider Knight at Lothric Castle, I think.

You're also gonna want a shield with 100% physical reduction. Not as necessary, though. When you hug him, either left or right works. I mainly go to the right out of habit.

Aside from that, buffs. He's weak to lightning so use Gold Pine resin.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by kob » Tue May 10, 2016 00:41

well i mean i killed him on both of my files. the strategy for him is the same as basically any other humanoid boss. and he's not even necessarily all that hard. it's just an incredibly frustrating fight because of how much stupid, cheap shit he does.

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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by Gordon Frohman » Tue May 10, 2016 00:52

Ah. I figured, but your last sentence made it sound like you were asking for advice or something.

Anyway, him + Pontiff + Nameless King are my top three favorite fights. I don't find them cheap, tbh - when I use the word cheap to describe a boss in Souls games, it's shit like Aldrich with his bullshit arrow storm and homing soul arrows, the Dancer with her grab attack or Wolnir with his poison mist attack. To me, that's cheap. But, maybe it's just all of our salt.

Speaking of salt, have you guys tried Salt and Sanctuary? It's a 2D Souls-like game. It's really fucking good.
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Re: Dark Souls 3

Post by kob » Tue May 10, 2016 01:03

for his charge attack i meant. i have zero idea how you avoid it and even then the fact it has the kind of tracking it does is completely bullshit. the punish attacks are pretty bullshit as well, but that's not exclusive to Gundyr.

i haven't played it but i've heard it's good. i'll check it out.

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