Ender's Game

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OBrocks
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Re: Ender's Game

Post by OBrocks » Fri May 28, 2010 12:57

i got this book a few years ago as a present

obviously i didnt read it because i was like 10 and didnt understand it

i dont know where i put it :(
Last edited by OBrocks on Sat May 29, 2010 13:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Fri May 28, 2010 14:15

yes but the battle simulator does not feel like some high tech, futuristic combat training thing despite the fact that it is. a lot of the time it just feels like a game of laser tag. the book emphasizes its technology once and that's when it's first introduced.

the book does not feel futuristic at all to me. there's cars, boats, TVs, bunk beds, newscasters, space shuttles etc. it takes a very modern approach despite being way in the future.

I wasn't generalizing either. I was comparing it to Star Wars in the literal sci-fi definition.

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Ransom » Sat May 29, 2010 00:17

What on Earth is the 'literal definition' of sci-fi, anyway? Star Wars is only SF in the most superficial way, if that's your meaning, but Ender's Game is no different.

You were generalising when you said it is more character driven than most sci-fi, which it certainly isn't. You're also generalising when you make the assertion that it is unique in having present-day things like cars and TVs and bunk beds, or in not making a big deal about its technology. SF isn't defined by lasers or crazy gadgets.

All you're telling me is that you haven't read much SF.

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Sat May 29, 2010 01:09

You were generalising when you said it is more character driven than most sci-fi, which it certainly isn't.
what no. I said EG is not sci-fi in the same way that SW is, but at the same time it is. it is in the sense that there is outer space and other worlds and all that jazz (aka the superficial meaning/definition), but the execution is different from SW. thus making it orthodox to good sci-fi yet at the same time it won't feel like you're reading a sci-fi novel. it is completely confusing and all I can say to quack is just read it because he will enjoy it.

by the way, you could argue that almost everything good focuses on the characters so I don't really get what you're trying to say there.

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Quack » Sat May 29, 2010 01:47

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Sat May 29, 2010 01:48

so you picked it up?

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Quack » Sat May 29, 2010 01:52

yes
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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Sat May 29, 2010 01:53

let me know what you think!

the pacing in the beginning is a little rigid and there's one chapter that is so horribly boring and goes on for too long, but the book as a whole is great.

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Quack » Sat May 29, 2010 01:56

imma start reading later tonigt
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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Ransom » Sat May 29, 2010 03:53

Gene Wolfe is the amazingest
KnightofBane wrote:by the way, you could argue that almost everything good focuses on the characters so I don't really get what you're trying to say there.
What's not to get? You said it focused more on the characters, as if that was unusual in science fiction. That's what I've been responding to. That and the idea that Star Wars is any kind of benchmark for science fiction, which let's face it is a bit ridiculous

Also I suppose someone could argue that everything good focuses on characters, but I wouldn't.

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Sat May 29, 2010 04:11

no I compared Ender's Game to Star Wars and that they both focus on complete opposites so if it's the whole spacey and technology feel that you dislike about futuristic sci-fi (again, using this loosely, as I completely agree with you on the genre of SW) then this novel will be good because it does not focus on that as much but maybe I am alone here and how I felt reading EG is just silly and FFFFFFF I AM REPEATING MYSELF HERE RANSOM

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Quack » Sun May 30, 2010 19:53

K so I read up to page 10 the other night. It's interesting so far.
I'm a bit iffy about how Ender beat up one of the bullies that was picking on him. The fact that he showed no mercy and kept kicking the kid even when he was on the ground and helpless... that's evil. Like he repeatedly kicked him IN THE FACE. wtf. I'm not used to evil protagonists. Okay okay, Ender cried after, but still wtfbbq
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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Sun May 30, 2010 20:17

in Ender's defense, he had to make sure the bully was down for the count and that others wouldn't fuck with him. I agree it was cold-hearted, but when you think about it his reasoning for doing it was logical. Ender doesn't exactly WANT to do it as shown by his crying. he's not an evil protagonist per se, but he's pretty unorthodox

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Re: Ender's Game

Post by Saladin » Mon May 31, 2010 05:27

KnightofBane wrote:no I compared Ender's Game to Star Wars and that they both focus on complete opposites so if it's the whole spacey and technology feel that you dislike about futuristic sci-fi (again, using this loosely, as I completely agree with you on the genre of SW) then this novel will be good because it does not focus on that as much but maybe I am alone here and how I felt reading EG is just silly and FFFFFFF I AM REPEATING MYSELF HERE RANSOM
Not at all, I see what you're getting at. Some people have this strange aversion to sci-fi where if the story has like, a spaceship in it, they get a massive boner-kill and refuse to enjoy the content even if they would totally love it otherwise. I've met people like that. People who love soap operas but refuse to watch BSG cuz it has robots and space, oh no.

And yeah, both Star Wars and Ender's Game could be completely replaced by Fantasy (that is Tolkien-style Medieval fantasy) or Steampunk settings and you wouldn't know the difference.

You could replace the aliens in Star Wars with various orcs etc., replace the force with magic and replace vehicles with the steampunk "magic-tech" you see in a game like Thief 2.

For Ender's Game, the aliens could easily be some sort of Zerg-like infestation or demons from the beyond. Although the command portion of the book and the plot-twist at the end tends to rely heavily on tech, there's no reason it couldn't be hammered into a fantasy setting in some way.

While other sci-fi series, like Star Trek, rely on their sci-fi setting for their content. The issues wouldn't make sense in another setting.
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Re: Ender's Game

Post by kob » Mon May 31, 2010 14:18

I have that huge spaceship boner-kill 99/100 times, but the difference with Ender's Game is that the book makes it feel a lot more modern than futuristic. the game they play feels like laser tag. the launch at the beginning feels like a modern-day space shuttle. they use the internet and cars and boats and all kinds of stuff you wouldn't expect in an orthodox futuristic setting so it makes it feel like modern sci-fi.

I'm not sure if Ender's Game could be fantasy if you switched it up. as you said, a lot of the stuff they do relies heavily on technology. even their little "desks" are pretty high-tech and I don't see how you could replace those without picking it down to the bone. and at that level you could consider every book fantasy. that's what separates it from being considered false sci-fi like Star Wars. then again maybe I just don't see how it could be fantasy as you didn't really expand on how the tech could be replaced with fantasy-esque stuff.

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